Comments on: The Treaty of Tripoli http://tacomaatheist.com/archives/303 Guided by reason, informed by science, motivated by compassion Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:36:19 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Amanda http://tacomaatheist.com/archives/303/comment-page-1#comment-20 Amanda Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:29:12 +0000 http://www.tacomaatheists.com/?p=303#comment-20 For more discussion on this, see the one at Breaking Spells, http://breakingspells.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/is-the-united-states-a-christian-nation/. For more discussion on this, see the one at Breaking Spells, http://breakingspells.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/is-the-united-states-a-christian-nation/.

]]> By: Lex http://tacomaatheist.com/archives/303/comment-page-1#comment-5 Lex Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:25:50 +0000 http://www.tacomaatheists.com/?p=303#comment-5 Although Article 11 isn't actually part of the treaty that was submitted to Tripoli and isn't legally binding on the USA government's internal affairs either it is important to note that it was UNANIMOUSLY ratified by the Senate as quoted above and published in the domestic media without any recorded incidents. The implications this has of the culture and attitudes of the people and politicians of the time is clearly that they did not consider their government to be a religious entity. The real question, however, is not whether or not our country was *founded* as a Christian nation but rather whether or not it ought to be some kind of quasi-democratic Christian theocracy *now*. Radical Evangelicals are trying to change our government and our society and they freely admit it cloaking it only thinly with the argument that they are trying to change it ~"back to the way it was". Those in the middle that are being swayed one way or another also know that they are supporting or opposing a movement that seeks to change our society into a more theocratic one. The strong arguments about whether or not we should do that are not arguments about whether or not that's the way it used to be but rather arguments about whether or not it should *ever* be that way. "Old fashioned values" is a meaningless and empty piece of rhetoric favored by radicals who have no moral standing or intellectual integrity. Outside of intellectual discussions about history there really is no reason to discuss the intent of the founding of USA and radical evangelicals only care about historical trivia that appears to support their claims as a healthy norm and ignore everything to the contrary. They have ceded the high ground to us; all we have to do is take it and refuse to discuss empty rhetoric with them. Although Article 11 isn’t actually part of the treaty that was submitted to Tripoli and isn’t legally binding on the USA government’s internal affairs either it is important to note that it was UNANIMOUSLY ratified by the Senate as quoted above and published in the domestic media without any recorded incidents. The implications this has of the culture and attitudes of the people and politicians of the time is clearly that they did not consider their government to be a religious entity.

The real question, however, is not whether or not our country was *founded* as a Christian nation but rather whether or not it ought to be some kind of quasi-democratic Christian theocracy *now*. Radical Evangelicals are trying to change our government and our society and they freely admit it cloaking it only thinly with the argument that they are trying to change it ~”back to the way it was”. Those in the middle that are being swayed one way or another also know that they are supporting or opposing a movement that seeks to change our society into a more theocratic one. The strong arguments about whether or not we should do that are not arguments about whether or not that’s the way it used to be but rather arguments about whether or not it should *ever* be that way. “Old fashioned values” is a meaningless and empty piece of rhetoric favored by radicals who have no moral standing or intellectual integrity. Outside of intellectual discussions about history there really is no reason to discuss the intent of the founding of USA and radical evangelicals only care about historical trivia that appears to support their claims as a healthy norm and ignore everything to the contrary. They have ceded the high ground to us; all we have to do is take it and refuse to discuss empty rhetoric with them.

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